ANNOUNCEMENT
Due to study and work commitments, I will only be taking new clients on an ad hoc basis
I will of course honour all existing commitments and will be happy to continue advising from this blog.
I plan to write 2 forthcoming articles, one on local employing institutions and another on the ” trading ” within the financial industry.
Also I have decided to take an even more direct approach and will be making more judgemental comments on individuals and organisations within the industry as I see fit.
Another thing is: in the past my articles have been well thought out but infrequent, from now on I will try to write more frequently but more spontaneously and less methodically.
Oh yes and leave your comments please ( after all this is free info) and you are most welcome to use anonymous names. In fact I prefer it that way
hey i found ur page when im searching for infos on operation associate..kinda having fun reading ur views on how IB works.
just wonder if u mind to share what dept are there for OA?
Hello Jane,
I suppose you have read the post ” operations theatre”, if not then there is useful info there.
Generally every financial institution will have OPs depts, wherever there is a trade, there is a need for OPs.
So all your banks, IBs, brokers, funds will have Ops depts, they are also divided along product type, eg) Equities vs Treasuries and so on..
I’ll drop you an email but when I can’t say, really busy at the moment and this is not through choice.
thanks for the reply..
im a fresh grad who is new to the field and hope to know more bout it..
just drop me an email anytime..
thanks.
OK, will do, give me a little while.
I’m overseas now.
What is your email btw ? you can email me on cceon@yahoo.com
Hi Txi. 2 years ago i was asking on a particular forum about a particular operations associate job in a local investment bank and u shared a lot of opinions. Now, 2 years later I’m finishing my program but I want to move into the front office Treasury area. I’ve gone for interviews but it hasn’t been easy though because of the obvious lack of relevant experience. Any words of advice you can offer? Thanks!
Yeah I know the ‘ forum ‘ you are referring to, I rarely if anytime go there. I find it generally crap.
But yes the move you want is one of the toughest around for a couple of reasons, because generally they don’t like Ops people getting into FO, because they label people: eooow you’re back office so you can never come to the FO.
Despite the fact that you may well have the same type of University qualification as they do.
Your time in Ops ” marks ” you.
yeah I know it’s a bullshit reason but banks are bullshitters – I mean if a fresh grad came to them, he would still have no experience, right ?
So why not give their own person a try ? No, so the reasons are political not economic or qualification wise.
I would ask why I really want to join FOT after being in Ops?
If the conclusion is that I want to get into a trading/ managing of money position then why not try a similar but different position.
Maybe you might like Equities Fund/ Fixed income management in which case why not take further study – a higher or different qualification.
Then when you apply, they can’t label you – you were not from Equities ops and you got a higher qualification.
If it is FI products then your experience in treasury Ops relates directly..
Yea you don’t have to tell me about the labeling of Ops people. My current bank wants me to continue in Ops for another 6 months and then consider moving me up. I’m thinking the longer i stay in Ops the harder it will be to move..so I’m trying to get out now.
I sat for the treasury dealing license since I thought that would give me enough edge to get into treasury but I guess the Ops label holds stronger? It’s also partly why I’m so fixed on treasury (no preference whether sales or interbank) – because of the license I paid and studied for.
what would be your definition of a sales desk in treasury, and how is it different from other sales roles out there? I used to sell bancassurance for a short while, and I find it tough to answer why I want to go back to Treasury sales after moving away from banca sales.
Why not try for treasury dealing in another bank – a smaller one.
Yes you are right the label is stronger than the qualification but you did the right thing, it is their own warped sense of ‘ saving ‘ costs that is wrong not you.
Don’t ever get down on yourself because of these anuses.
the idea is that they want to squeeze every last drop from you – like this guy has Ops experience so we should use him only for that and not anything else because we cannot capitalise on his experience and if we cannot capitalise then we don’t want to be involved.
A really stupid nonsensical notion but one that persists.
Don’t tell them about the bancassurance sales.
The line is simple – I have seen all the trade details from the back office side, i have all the background info and now I want to be in the FO.
corporate sales would be easier to get into than price maker if you are not fussy.
Yea I wouldn’t mind anywhere so long as its a bank. But treasury departments don’t get much smaller than the one in the bank I’m already in I think..haha
Don’t tell them about the previous sales job? I thought that would show at least I know something about sales and not just saying I want to do it because it sounds cool. You think it’s better to just take that part out of resume..?
Hmm I’ve been using that line but I guess I should emphasize it more now. Thanks for your help Txi. =)
Yes I do, because, unless bancassurance is sold to corporates, it may do you more harm to put it down
if most of the clients are retail.
They will say ” ah, this guy can only sell to retail small timers “.
you know what they are like.
So the ” I have seen all the trade details from the back office side, i have all the background info and now I want to be in the FO. ” would be my preference.
And be quite aggressive, don’t show humility , they will take it as a sign of weakness.
If they persist in saying you have no FO experience then if I were you I would be quite assertive in my comeback:
” Look – you still take fresh grads don’t you ? They have zero experience, but I do have knowledge of how the pattern of trades go.
I don’t mind you saying you don’t like me but don’t make up excuses that I am not qualified ”
Or words to that effect.
i have come to the conclusion nowadays in these situations it is better to go down fighting then to be suckered into the game of ” being humble”.
At least you come out with 2 things ; 1 ) your self respect intact and 2) you get to tell them straight in the face what the situation is.
I guess you like many people already sense this and this applies across the executive world.
Companies run by yuppy pondans are run not to get the best man/woman for the job but the best buttl**ker.
What we can do is to expose them on places like this.
Hello Mr patchy ,
Are you around ?
Hey txi. Good thing I subscribe to these comments lol. Yup I’m still here
Me:” Look – you still take fresh grads don’t you ? They have zero experience, but I do have knowledge of how the pattern of trades go.
Them: Then you wont mind taking home a fresh grad’s salary?
Me:…
*SOS Mr. Txi*
Answer : ” No because as I said at least I have experience – what the trade patterns are “.
It depends on whether you are willing to take a FG salary, if it is not too big a drop it may be worth considering.
but that is entirely up to you, obviously if you don’t mind then you can agree to that.
However to me me once he comes with a line like that, I’d be very suspicious about whether he is even going to give you a fair shot. A red flag should pop in your head, as it signals he is needlessly trying to make up BS excuses not to take you.
txi, what should i do to get into treasury as a trader? i have corporate finance experience, but the work sucks
when you say CF you mean the regular stuff I assume- putting together IPOs, M+ A etc.
That case the experience doesn’t really match up to a trader’s work.
It would be hard to make a case, so my advice would be to take further studies, and then apply on the basis of that.
Otherwise, if you have a bit of sales experience in CF then you might want to try fx corporate sales and after that try for a trader’s role, on the basis – you’ve seen the market, know the market, seen your own traders at work, know their tactics etc , but won’t be easy.